[MWS]: STUDIE II
Bernd Enders
Bernd.Enders at rz.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE
Sam Nov 28 20:44:36 CET 1998
Hallo,
in der mailing-Liste "cecdiscuss" gab es vor ein paar Tagen eine Diskussion
zu einer Rekonstruktion von Stockhausen ´Studie II´,
m.E. eine reizvolle Thematik.
Daher gebe ich die betreffenden mails hier gesammelt weiter.
Viele Grüße
Bernd Enders
---------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:48:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: KEVIN AUSTIN <KAUSTIN at vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: Studie II
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Jorge wrote:
>In his Nr.3 Elektronische Studien/Studie II, Stockhausen used paper and
>analogic magnetic tape as supports.
>There is a score in paper, published by Universal Edition (U.E.12466).
>With this score it's possible reconstruct the tape.
I heard (an urban myth??) a few years ago that someone (in Sweden?) did
attempt to reconstruct this piece from the score, and that it in fact
sounded different. Anyone know if this story has a basis in reality?
Best
Kevin
kaustin at vax2.concordia.ca
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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:27:30 -0200
From: Guto Caminhoto <guto at sercomtel.com.br>
Organization: DEL
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Hi,
This sounds very similar to the Stockhausen realization,
except that sounds are brighter:
http://www.uel.br/Web/home/uel/ceca/dart/web/studie-2.orc
http://www.uel.br/Web/home/uel/ceca/dart/web/studie-2.sco
It is only an 20" excerpt of the Studie II (three first pages),
realized with Csound.
Best,
Guto
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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:36:42 +0100
From: Risto Holopainen <risto.holopainen at notam.uio.no>
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KEVIN AUSTIN wrote:
> I heard (an urban myth??) a few years ago that someone (in Sweden?) did
> attempt to reconstruct this piece from the score, and that it in fact
> sounded different. Anyone know if this story has a basis in reality?
Yes, as far as I know, Knut Wiggen did a reconstruction of Studie II as a
technical test of the EMS studio in Stockholm, when it was new (in the
middle of the sixties). He found that they managed to realize the score in
some hours, whereas it must have taken months for Stockhausen. In an
article that Wiggen wrote for our Norwegian journal of contemporary music,
Parergon, he says that they did not have the intention to reconstruct the
piece exactly, only to reproduce what was in the score. And he comments
that yet, the result is interresting, as it reveals what is lost when a
piece from the Cologne studio in the fifties is redused to a score.
He also claims they developed a programming system that was very much like
Max, but just better, and many years before, but that is an other story.
Risto Holopainen
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Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:26:50 +1000
From: dan <dp.horwood at student.qut.edu.au>
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G'day,
this is my first post to the list (i've been skulking around for a
while)....but to get on..
i reconstructed Stockhausen's "Studie II" last year to use in one of my
university folios. i actually haven't heard the original and would be
interested to hear and compare.
cheers,
dan horwood.
KEVIN AUSTIN wrote:
>
> Jorge wrote:
>
> >In his Nr.3 Elektronische Studien/Studie II, Stockhausen used paper and
> >analogic magnetic tape as supports.
> >There is a score in paper, published by Universal Edition (U.E.12466).
> >With this score it's possible reconstruct the tape.
>
> I heard (an urban myth??) a few years ago that someone (in Sweden?) did
> attempt to reconstruct this piece from the score, and that it in fact
> sounded different. Anyone know if this story has a basis in reality?
>
> Best
>
> Kevin
> kaustin at vax2.concordia.ca
-------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 08:26:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: KEVIN AUSTIN <KAUSTIN at vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: Re: Studie II
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G'day Dan
Now _here's_ an interesting twist (particularly for our German copyright
legal beagal).
>From oz, Dan wrote:
>i reconstructed Stockhausen's "Studie II" last year to use in one of my
>university folios. i actually haven't heard the original and would be
>interested to hear and compare.
>
>cheers,
>dan horwood.
It is my understanding that:
>> It is legal to perform a work by a living composer without his/her
permission. (from a legal copy of the score, with performance rights
being paid... etc)
>> It is legal to record a work by a living composer without their
permission. (same caveat).
>> Is it legal to put your own interpretation of a song on the web? (a cover
in the vernacular) ... same caveat.
ipso facto ... (?)
Could Dan put his realization of Studie II on the web without
Stockhausen's permission? (see caveat above).
With an adequately detailed score, it would be possible to perform covers
of Hymnen (if you could get rights to use the recordings of the national
anthems ... does anyone know if Stockhausen used commercial recordings
[with legal permission] or if the national anthems were recorded by WDR for
this piece), Kontakte, Gesang, Poeme electronique, the entire early
collection of Schaeffer, Henry ... even the Beatles' "number five" (for
which a score does exist).
Would it be legal to use Dan's 'cover' of the Studie II on a CD
compilation, paying Stockhausen in the same way that pop music cover
bands pay the original composer?
How would (say) Varese's estate respond to a Spice Girl's cover of Poeme
electronique? or Stockhausen perhaps to a rap cover of Gesang ... the
possibilities are endless! (eg a hip-hop version of Presque Rien ... do
the children in the recording still receive royalty payments?)
<<*<<\\8-() >>*>>>*> (Now both the beard and the hair are on fire!)
Dan, I would be interested in having a copy of your cover of Studie II
for my classes ... let me know!
Best
Kevin
kaustin at vax2.concordia.ca
(Was cold, but could get much warmer quite quickly.)
-------------------
From: Nicolas Vérin <nverin at infonie.fr>
Subject: Re: Studie II
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:46:30 +0200
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>With an adequately detailed score, it would be possible to perform covers
>of Hymnen (if you could get rights to use the recordings of the national
>anthems ... does anyone know if Stockhausen used commercial recordings
>[with legal permission] or if the national anthems were recorded by WDR for
>this piece), Kontakte, Gesang, Poeme electronique, the entire early
>collection of Schaeffer, Henry ... even the Beatles' "number five" (for
>which a score does exist).
Do you mean Revolution 9 ? I've never heard of a score for it.
>How would (say) Varese's estate respond to a Spice Girl's cover of Poeme
>electronique? or Stockhausen perhaps to a rap cover of Gesang ...
It seems a purely hypothetical question, yet there was a CD that came out
of re-mixes by everal DJs of "La messe pour le temps present" by Pierre
Henry, for which I believe he was approached for his autorization (and the
negociation of royalties).
~~~~~~~ Nicolas Vérin - compositeur / composer ~~~~~~~
pour plus d'inforamtions, visitez mon site :
http://perso.infonie.fr/nverin/
for more informations, visit my site :
http://perso.infonie.fr/nverin/
---------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:26:41 +0000
To: cecdiscuss at concordia.ca
From: Lawrence Casserley <leo at chiltern.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Studie II
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In message <01J4DWCGNLZY00QS8X at vax2.concordia.ca>, KEVIN AUSTIN
<KAUSTIN at vax2.concordia.ca> writes
>Jorge wrote:
>
>>In his Nr.3 Elektronische Studien/Studie II, Stockhausen used paper and
>>analogic magnetic tape as supports.
>>There is a score in paper, published by Universal Edition (U.E.12466).
>>With this score it's possible reconstruct the tape.
>
>I heard (an urban myth??) a few years ago that someone (in Sweden?) did
>attempt to reconstruct this piece from the score, and that it in fact
>sounded different. Anyone know if this story has a basis in reality?
>
I think this would be at the then brand new studio at EMS in Stockholm
in about 1970. This studio was based on digitally controlled analogue
sine wave oscillators controlled by an enormous console with various
touch controls and light indicators. In practise, though, anything
really interesting had to be programmed via the teletype.
I visited the studio in 1974, (the console was awesome) but I never
worked there. Perhaps one of those who did can fill in the details.
There is a brief discussion of the studio in Chadabe's 'Electric Sound',
but no mention of the 'Studie II' re-creation.
I have a recollection of at least one other attempt, but I can't
remember who or where. Any one?
Lawrence Casserley
--
Lawrence Electronic Operations -Tel +44 1494 481381 -FAX +44 1494 481454
Signal Processing for Contemporary Music -email leo at chiltern.demon.co.uk
http://www.chiltern.demon.co.uk
----------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:36:47 +0000
To: cecdiscuss at concordia.ca
From: Lawrence Casserley <leo at chiltern.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Studie II
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In message <01J4GTV2GRJI00RL3C at vax2.concordia.ca>, KEVIN AUSTIN
<KAUSTIN at vax2.concordia.ca> writes
><<*<<\\8-() >>*>>>*> (Now both the beard and the hair are on fire!)
Must be Shed Rack, Me Shack and To Bed We Go in that fire somewhere!!!
(As Stockhausen might [or might not] have put it) ;-)>
Lawrence
--
Lawrence Electronic Operations -Tel +44 1494 481381 -FAX +44 1494 481454
Signal Processing for Contemporary Music -email leo at chiltern.demon.co.uk
http://www.chiltern.demon.co.uk
-------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:34:02 -0600
From: Bob Falesch <raf at interaccess.com>
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Regarding Stockhausen and reconstructions (or constructions, in this
case!), I'm curious
about whether anyone has treated Plus-Minus algorithmically. I am aware of
the
significant work of Alcedo Coenen, which includes a thoughtful analysis of
the score and
much preliminary design, but to my knowlege his effort is still on hold.
This score is
fascinating, and is one which seems impossible to execute properly with the
pen and paper
available to interpreters of its day (1960-ish?). Could he have
anticipated the
composer's desktop computer, free O/S'es, and free compilers? :-)
--Bob Falesch
Lawrence Casserley and KEVIN AUSTIN wrote about Stockhausen's Nr.3
Elektronische
Studien/Studie II
> [...]
> >>In his Nr.3 Elektronische Studien/Studie II, Stockhausen used paper and
> >>analogic magnetic tape as supports...
----------------
From: Anna.Rubin at oberlin.edu
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:33:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Studie II
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--On Sun, Nov 22, 1998 11:34 PM -0600 "Bob Falesch" <raf at interaccess.com>
wrote:
> Regarding Stockhausen and reconstructions (or constructions, in this
case!), I'm curious
> about whether anyone has treated Plus-Minus algorithmically.
Some twenty years ago Lucky Mosko at CalArts led a group of us through a
laborious semester of realizing Plus Minus. You might want to contact him to
see if he continued his interest in the score. Best, Anna Rubin
***************************************************************************
Anna Rubin
Department of Composition, Room 213, Oberlin College, Conservatory of Music
Oberlin, OH 44074-1588 Phone: 440-775-6155
Email: Anna.Rubin at oberlin.edu
--
Prof. Dr. Bernd Enders
Universität Osnabrück
Forschungsstelle Musik- und Medientechnologie
Schloß, Neuer Graben, D-49069 Osnabrück
http://www.fmt.uni-osnabrueck.de
TEL (+)541/969-4147
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e-mail: Bernd.Enders at uni-osnabrueck.de
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TEL/FAX priv. (+)541/53176
--------------